In 1963 World in Action made a film about these seven year old children
they talked about their homes, their schools and what they wanted to be
they were filmed again when they were fourteen
we've brought them all together to watch the films
because this year they are twenty-one
what are they doing now?
How have. they changed?
What sort of people are they?
Stop it at once!
Give me a child until he is seven
and I will give you the man
When I leave the school I'm going to..
Colet Court
and then I will be going to Rossminster Boarding School
if I pass the exam
and then we think I'm going to
Cambridge and Trinity Hall
Well...
before I'm old and that, enough to get a job
I'll just walk around and see what I can find
I want to be a jockey when I grow up yeah
When I leave school
I'm going to The Dragon School, I might
and after I might go to Charterhouse Marlborough
What about university Charlie?
I might go to Oxford
What does university mean?
Well...
Well I don't think I need to go to university
'cause I'm not going to be a teacher
I don't think you have to go to university
if you want to be an astronaut
When I leave this school
I'm down for Heathfield and Fairfield Manor
and then maybe I may want to go to university
but I don't know which one yet
I will buy myself a nice new made house, you know
One that's all nice and comfy
I'm going to work in Woolworths
Well, going to Africa
and try and teach people who are not civilised
to be, more or less good
When I grow up I'd like to
find out all about the moon and all that
It's just that the limitations of such things as :
What the audience require and the time
don't allow it to be a real study
I mean if we accept this
then it....
Okay I think it's probably good entertainment
I don't think we've changed that much
I think we talk, no I don't mean looks
I mean the way we talk I don't think we've changed that much
Well you never lose an Eastend accent do you
I tell you what, as it goes you've definitely changed
- You think so yeah? - In facial
You haven't changed a bit have you?
Don't you think so? I thought I'd got bigger
You might be about an inch bigger yeah
- An inch? - I know it's unbelievable
That's something I did notice, the way our teeth have changed
Teeth?
Yes
- Mine were out like that and I had them shoved back - Well I noticed the ears actually
Have you not noticed that a lot of people... your ears have been made real fun about them
They've got they're conclusions settled already
They must
...met here today and we've seen the films
and we feel as if we know everybody who is in the films now
has broken any class barriers that could previously existed
and therefore the film itself has
possibly defeated its own object
- They do lead me on a bit don't they - That's what I mean
and they hype the program up too much
Yeah
and make that you're good and I'm bad
- Or - Well Vice-versa I think
- No don't be silly - No I really do , especially the "7" one
People tend to read significance into it that I don't think exists
One of my friends for instance, had me pointed out to him as...
being destined to run the farm
and being educationally pretty inept, this is obvious from the film
At seven Nicholas was at a one room village school in the Yorkshire Dales
Do you have a girlfriend?
I don't want to answer that
I don't want answer those kind of questions
I thought that one would come up because when I was
When I was doing the other one somebody said
"what do you think about girls?" and I said "I don't answer questions like that"
is that the reason you're asking it?
- yeah - thought so
The best answer would be
to say that I don't answer questions like that but I mean..
you know it was what I said when I was seven
and it's still the most sensible but I mean, what about them?
Well you seemed at fourteen
very shy of the whole
sexual life, has that changed?
I've tried to make a change yes
a very definite conscious effort not to be shy
to be more outgoing
and this is actually something I can put a point to in my own past
and think yes I did make my mind up here, here and here
that I was going to try and change this, this and this
"this" being basically my confidence
and my
my sort of approach to
well this is to people in general
When I grow up I'd like to
find out all about the moon and all that
I mean
I'm not
when I said that I was interested in physics and chemistry well I'm not going to do that here
You might be able to get... somebody to ex...
will you explain this to me again
Nicholas is now in his 2nd year at Oxford University
Well I'm trying to be a physicist
to fill in the detail of
whenever you meet somebody at university that
the standard question is,
where are you and what are you doing?
and my answer is I'm at Merton College and I'm doing Physics
so it doesn't move up and down and just rotates
- OK - Then you put it in
We'll give it a whirl
So what career are you going to pursue?
It depends whether I'll be good enough to do what I want to really do
I would like if I can to do research
Are there any disadvantages in coming from a small place like this
and preparing yourself for Oxford?
Well it's a rather different background
to go any where, Oxford perhaps especially
it is a rather more firm foundation I would've thought
as to your
character? I don't? perhaps character
than being brought up in the city
It's a fixed reference point in a sense
that sort of earthy life and death cycle that you get
living on a farm
so when something dies it rots and feeds back into the earth
sometimes it's helpful
in a city where things that some people are very concerned about seem quite irrelevant
Is there a new strength of your father as a farmer
that you think he's trying to teach you
Well you get a certain sort of calmness in some situations
take things as they come you become resigned to things
if the dog's chasing animals in the wrong direction then you just have to put up with it
if it won't do as it's told you become resigned to these things
I suppose yes that's one possibility
come on
come on lad
I suppose of all the seven year olds
the original ones, you are the big success
I am not inclined to accept that
Why? You wouldn't agree with that?
Well what have I achieved?
I'm not really prepared to accept that I've done anything very special yet
I'd like to think that....I mean I'm hoping that I might do at some stage
but I don't really think I've done anything that you can call a great success
It would seem really ridiculous to any of my friends who watch this if I said
"Christ aren't I a great success, look at me"
Well what? You know, what success?
I can't think of it in those terms
I haven't done anything that can be called success
nothing out of the ordinary really
Singing Waltzing Matilda in Latin
at an exclusive pre-preparatory school in London
Charles
Andrew
and John
I think it's not a bad idea to pay for schools
because if we didn't
schools would be so nasty and crowded
Yes, so do I think so
The poor people would come rushing in and the man in charge of the school would...
Would you think there's any truth in the ideas behind the program that
certain people have more options than others and this is undesirable?
It's certainly true that more people know they have more options or imagine they have
I think in practical terms
the difference in numerical number of options isn't that great
the fact is that the three of us know that there's a whole range of things we can do
But the mere knowledge creates an option in itself, so I think we do have more options
and it is undesirable but it's very difficult to correct
I don't think it is undesirable at all
I think what's undesirable is people who have had options
don't make advantage of them, take best advantage of them
but I can't see there's anything wrong
as long as people don't abuse the opportunities and privileges they've had
If people behave responsibly I think it's very good
they're the sort of stability and structure in society
We've been taught to expect more
it's not that because we've been to private schools
we're not better qualified necessarily
- No - Yes I agree with that
It's a matter of expectations
Yes I must say, all this talk about opportunities
something I did slightly object to in the program was
we were shown at the age of seven
outlining the academic career that most of us did in fact pursue
each sentence ended up "John is at Westminster"
Andrew is at Charterhouse and everything
implied that we just sailed through, merely manifesting an intention at the age of seven
we didn't show the sleepless nights, the pouring over our books
sort of, you know
all the sweat and toil that got us through to university
it was presented as if it was just part of some
indestructible birth right that we went to all these places
and I thought that was unfair, they didn't show us having to do beastly jobs in the holidays
y'know, to make ends meet and things
it didn't give a very real sort of...impression
The three girls are earning
income wise they're far better off than I imagine all three of us are, certainly I am
and background wise
in terms of qualifications or the means of achieving their ends
they probably have just as many options as we do
Jaqueline
how do you think about coloured people?
Well they're nice, they're just the same as us really
but, one thing
it's only 'cause their skin's brown and we're white
sort of pinkish we are
Jackie, Lynn and Susan
they went to primary school together in the Eastend of London
Lynn chose to go on to a grammar school
and Jackie and Susan to a comprehensive
There is a danger that you would get married at early twenties and
have children quickly and then be stuck at home
have you any thoughts on that?
- I don't really think about it much - No
I don't think I'd eh....
get married to early
I'd like to have a full life first and
- I'd like to enjoy myself before I... - Meet people and...yeah
Before you can commit yourself to a family
What would you do if you had lots of money? about two pounds
I would buy myself a nice new made house you know
one that's all nice and comfy
Jackie was married last year and now lives on a new estate in Essex
- It's a nice estate - Yeah - Yeah not bad at all
What are they like the neighbours? Have you seen a lot of them or what?
Well you know, to say hello to more than anything, I mean
we borrow things off of her, which is just as well
- That's what neighbours are for isn't it? - Yeah right!
Here, It's a similar colour scheme down here moving up stairs isn't it?
Yeah but this was more by luck than judgement really
- Was it like this when you came? - No it was all white
but you can imagine the state it was in
friends had some paint handy so Dad and Mick just used the rollers and in a day it was done
two coats, wallop! that was it
Susan is still single
I work for a travel company
they don't deal with the public, they deal with groups and company groups
it's sort of incentive, holidays abroad and conferences, that sort of thing
which I like because I like foreign places
and I have to do eh....
I do quite a bit of typing
but a lot of my work is involved in making bookings
and dealing with hotels abroad
I left school and started work...
for an Australian bank and I'm still there
and I've been there what? Three and a half years now
I've done various jobs within the bank
I started off as a telephonist-typist
which was very interesting actually, you'd be surprised the sort of calls you get
Then I went on to work the NCR machine
which is the actual machine that processes the accounts
and counter work dealing with clients money and things like that
I'm going to work in Woolworths
Well I'm a school mobile librarian and assistant to the young peoples office
Which is where we are now
and I've been here since August last year
Lynn is now married but still lives and works in the Eastend
I visit schools with the van
where they've not got position to get into a local library for class visits
I love working with children
do you remember on the last one I wanted to teach?
Well I didn't get to that
and seeing how it is today I'm glad I didn't
the job situation for all teachers as it is
and I think it takes a lot more patience than I've actually got
I'm much more at home here
- Have I stamped yours? - Yes
I've not stamped yours
Sleeping Beauty
I've lost the stamp!
Do you sleep like a beauty?
What do you say?
Thank you
I definitely make a point in reading all my new books I get in
It's quite funny, I take loads of books home
and people come and say "who are these kids books on the table?"
- "They're mine" - "Oh"
Then they sort of shut up
At the moment a career's probably about the furthest thing from my mind
and I don't really know what I'm aiming for except to get the house together
and that can take years, as fast as you replace one thing something else needs replacing, so ...
it could just go on like that, I don't know
Well admitting that you're not a career girl
does it mean that you're therefore looking for a family?
Oh I don't know, I suppose i am
But erm..
every thing's not that cut and dried
it's not either career or family or...
but is what's in the middle, am I just going to carry on as I am now? for?
and end up .....on the shelf?
or am I just going to get married? could be any day, but
I suppose Lynn is a career girl in a way isn't she?
Yeah she's more wrapped up in her job than I think we are
and you all three were sat there at seven and she's gone that way and you've gone this way
is there? can you?....
think of any reasons why that should be?
I think just basic personality, Lynn's always been that little bit different from us
She's always been more serious as far as studies are concerned
I didn't feel like going to a grammar school, I just er...
you know, comprehensive school it just seemed more friendly
At that time that is, but now a little bit different
- Grammar school's fantastic - If you say so!
When I leave this school
I'm down for Heathfield and Fairfield Manor
and then maybe I may want to go to university but I don't know which one yet
This is Susie
the product of a private education and wealthy parents
What do you think about making this program?
I just think it's ridiculous, I don't see any point in doing it
Why not?
What's the point of people going into peoples lives and saying:
"Why do you like this and why don't you?" I don't see any point in it
Well I didn't want to do it when I was fourteen
I know I was very difficult because I was very anti doing it
because I was pressurised into doing it by my parents
and I hated it
and I vowed I'd never do it now
but here I am
I'd like to do...
short hand typing or something like that
I left school when I was sixteen, went to Paris
went to secretarial college and got a job
What made you decide to leave school and go to Paris?
I just wasn't interested in school and just wanted to get away
and why did you choose Paris?
I don't know, it was my parents really
Did you sort of feel the need to get away? and why?
Well I'd lived in London or Scotland
and I knew people who were going out to Paris and so I thought I'd go as well
Comparing yourselves to Susie
who stands at the other end of the social scale
do you think you've had the same opportunities as her?
I've had the opportunities in life that I've wanted
I'd say I've had more opportunities than Susie
I'd say I've had more opportunities than her
in a different aspect to what she's had them
But eh, my life, I've been able to do more or less what I wanted to do
I'm not going to say it on film, what i feel for her
But I think she's been so conditioned into what she should do and what she shouldn't do
Yeah but I mean
The whole thing is you're saying "do we envy anything Susie's had?"
No
I mean I don't know
I don't know what Susie's had, what's Susie had that I haven't had?
I mean, until I know that I can't honestly say whether I envy her
- She's had money and she's travelled - I've got money!
Maybe not enough but I've got it!
I have been to Honolulu with my father about two years ago
for a couple of months
which I didn't really enjoy
there's nothing much out there, there's no meet people my own age out there
and I hated it and I was glad to come home
apart from that I've been to France on holidays
I'm going to Australia in the summer
for about two months
otherwise I don't know where I'm going to go and I'd like to go and travel more
Why?
Well I don't think there's any point in sitting in your own country
I'd like to see how people live on the other side of the world
Tell me about the Australian trip
Well I'm going in July for about two months with my cousin
her elder sister's married out there
and we're just going out to....
see what it's like
we're going to not work out there, we're only going for two months
We just feel if we don't go now we never will
We've got the opportunity and the time to go now so we're going
How are you going to pay for it?
Save up and go
Do you get depressed by money problems?
No, why? Why should you?
- If you can manage on what you've got - I refuse to get depressed over money
- It's so easy to but why should you? - I do, I do
Why worry about it?
When I reach the 18th day of the month and my mortgage is due on the 20th
and there's nowhere near enough money in there, I get depressed about it obviously
Suddenly thinking, oh my god what's going to happen, you know
But it gets there, don't ask me how but you get it
Do you think you've settled down to young?
No
I've married and we do things together, or...
I go out on my own sometimes with friends from work
he does the same, what do you mean by settled down?
If you think that getting married as far as we're concerned is a case of
going to work, come home, cook tea for hubby, going to bed, getting up, going to work
you're totally mistaken
Did you meet enough men before you decided who to marry?
I've been married a year and...
a couple of months
you do think "christ, what have I done?"
- See I've still got my ideals - and I'm being honest about it!
and my husband thinks the same, at times you think "christ, what have I done?"
- But then if... - But marriage...
Marriage means a different thing to me
I've still got my ideals about marriage, I don't know what it's all about, obviously
So I've still got pictures of
- Cosy evenings indoors...yeah - With roses!
She'd have cosy evenings indoors with the central heating!
Or lack of it!
- Yeah, I've got a lot to learn about .... getting married
I mean, your parents split up soon after you were fourteen
What sort of influence, effect did that have on you?
Well I was the only child going through their parents splitting up aged 14
at a very vulnerable age and it does touch you up, but...
You know, you get over it
There was no point in them staying together for me
if it was worse, I mean the rows and...
and it's worse
so if two people can't live together there's no point in making yourself
even for the sake of children
What is your attitude towards marriage? for yourself?
Well I don't know, I haven't given it a lot of thought as I'm very cynical about it
But then you get a certain amount of faith restored in it
I mean I've got friends and their parents are happily married
and it does put faith back into you but me myself I'm very cynical about it
Why?
Because I think it kills whatever love is
it just seems to go wrong
What do you base that on?
Well, people I've seen, people around me
I mean I've got....not a lot of my friends are married
a lot of people who are 20,30 all seem to be getting divorced and can't stay together
and at the moment I just don't really believe in it
Why do you think people can't hold marriages together?
I don't know, I really don't know
I don't sort of sit down and think "ooh ...analyse marriage"
It's not something I've had to think about whether I was going to get married
and I've got no desire to at the moment, I think twenty is far too young
What was the wedding like?
Our wedding? a laugh!
I wanted, white wedding, all trimmings
My husband would've been satisfied with very little
but being as we were going into it as a full thing
we went into it
I had an all white wedding, all white
We were both in white and my bridesmaid was in white
It's a funny day actually
because I suppose I was up somewhere around the five o'clock mark
and I spent all day preparing
well all morning I should say
and then sitting around for about three hours
just waiting for something to happen then when it did happen I don't remember it
So
it was just complete confusion really
- It was a nice day though - Oh yeah
It was funny actually, you can imagine some of the comments
I was pleased I was there, it seemed the right place to be
I mean I was glad I was at her wedding, I've known her a long while
Did anything happen? Anything funny?
I can't forget the cake
It was horrific really, the cake what happened to the wedding cake
it was sitting right in between Mick and myself
suddenly the columns just completely gave way and it just all fell into one
- It was a nice cake though! - Yeah it wasn't bad!
I read the Financial Times
I read the Observer and the Times
What do you like about it?
Well I like...
I usually look at the headlines then read about them
about it
I like my newspaper because I've got shares in it
- and I know every day what the shares are - The stuff that misers like you like!
But on Monday's they don't move up so I don't look at it
That's one of the troubles with this sort of program, I don't really think that people like us
Unless we're seven and being rather funny, have very much to say that's...
very interesting, because I mean...
we don't know very much
Well we didn't know very much when we were seven
- But we were still quite funny - We were at least funny!
- Yes! - Yes! - In ourselves!
I agree with John, all we can say is what we think
and if that's of interest to people, good luck to them
Yes and I can't believe it is
More fool them!
When I leave this school I'm going to College Court
then I would be going to Westminster Boarding School if I pass the exam
and then we think I'm going to
Cambridge and Trinity Hall
John is in his final year at Christchurch Oxford, reading Law
I do believe parents have a right to educate their children as they think fit
I think someone who works on an assembly line in a car factory, earning a huge wage
could well afford to send their children to private school if they wanted to
Just because..
some sort of people perhaps don't put that as high on their priorities as...
having a smart car or something
I don't think that's any reason for abolishing public school
I think an awful lot more people could afford to send their sons to school
You know, to fee paying school
But they don't choose to, and that's their choice
I'm going to Charterhouse
and after that, Trinity Hall Cambridge
Andrew is in his last year at Trinity College Cambridge, reading Law
I think if people earn their money they should have a right to spend it
an education is very important
and you can never be sure of leaving your children any worldly goods but
at least you can be sure that once you've given them a good education
that's something that no one can take away
What about university Charlie?
I might go to Oxford
You're reading history at Durham University, you didn't make Oxford
What are your feelings about that?
I don't mind at all
In fact
I'd say I'm pleased I didn't
because it was very much a sort of
sort of set of Marlborough Prep School
Marlborough, Oxbridge, conveyor belt
you get shoved out at the end
and you...
when you go to Oxbridge and it's obviously not true in all cases but
I think for the majority
they mix with the same people they were at school with
So what attracts you to Oxford?
Well first of all it's such a beautiful place
there's more to it than just studying away at one's books
I think it's very difficult not to get something out of it
there's such a sort of...
atmosphere of culture and...
and timelessness about the place that I think you do sort of mature an awful lot
So what is Beagling?
Beagling is the hunting of the hare
with a pack of hounds, done on foot
I mean a lot of people seem to imagine
a days hunting with either fox to hunt or beagles
unadulterated butchery. I mean this just isn't true, I think
I wish people had a more realistic idea of what it's about
The hounds are over there I think
I saw them last streaming along that hedge there
- Frustrating isn't it? - Yes
I'm reasonably old fashioned about some things but I mean
I mean people who go on a lot about the permissive society are missing the point
if they think the only thing that's wrong is sex
I think you know, decreasing respect for the family as a unit
increasing dishonesty, both in business....
there used to be much more much stronger developed ideas of commercial integrity
than seem to be going around nowadays, nowadays people seem to be out for themselves
I really do think I suppose there is an invasion by the American way of life
which I think is a very sad thing
Is that unstoppable? That trend do you think?
I think it really is unfortunately, yes
So where does that leave your values?
Well it leaves them with me
and my future children whom I shall implicate them in
But do you not find yourself isolated?
That really doesn't matter
If I believe my principals are right
and I'm doing the right thing to bring my children up by them
it won't matter to me whether I'm living in the middle-ages mentally
I shall do what's right
Well when I was very small my father always used to go ski-ing
and he took me with him
and we've been ever since really
and how old or young were you when you started?
Oh about five, on tiny little ski's
it was quite frightening then
what is the appeal of it?
Well the sort of freedom and going in the snow and the mountains
and the feeling of speed
and getting away from people if you can
Do you save up to come ski-ing or...?
I don't but my father does
as he pays for me
Your parents have been divorced since fourteen
- Since you were fourteen - That's right, quite recently yes
Tell me about that and the influence it's had on you
Well not much influence in fact
because it's happened when I'm quite old
and I'm away from home a lot anyway
it's very sad of course
but I don't think it has had a great deal of influence
if it had happened when I was much younger
it would've had much more influence
an adverse influence I would've thought
Did your parents divorce leave any lasting mark on you?
I don't know, I mean
seen the film at fourteen so
and that's of our closest time, I would've thought it did but...
don't talk about that anyway so...
Why?
I think it's unfair on them
Very few parents I think, bring up their children...
with the intention of belittling them or doing as little for them as possible
I think
you have to assume that most parents do as much as they can
given the circumstances of the children
and obviously things could've been far worse
Do you think it's changed your attitude to marriage? or...
It just means that
because I was faced with that situation I have an attitude which is a positive attitude
rather than "well everybody else gets married therefore I shall get married"
My attitude would be that if one is going to have children
if you want to have children then that's a very real reason for getting married
but if you get married...
it's an agreement to make the thing work for eighteen years
or however long it is until the children have grown up
no there's no point in just sitting it out for eighteen years
there's nothing worse than that, it would be better for the parents to get a divorce
I think people
perhaps don't make as much effort
as they should have, or should do to make marriages work
it's very easy for me to say so as I've never been in the position
In what way should people make more effort?
I think people just take too much for granted when they get married
or used to, not now perhaps
I mean, I don't know about you for instance
I know my mother, she's said that
she's spoilt really
and she never realised how lucky she'd been until she'd been divorced
Up to about twelve
maybe it's different with other people, but
I found that you're much more attached to your parents
once you come to about thirteen, fourteen
you're not quite so attached to them
I think the system of having house captains
is rather good
because when somebody is naughty
the house captain asks him and...
and has a talk to him
once I had a talk to Grevil, he was in my house
and
I asked Sir if he could put him out of my house because he was always getting minuses
What did Sir say?
Sir said that he would...
we would see about it this term
Well I think it's a very good system
Have you had to speak to anyone?
- Just because you are one I suppose? - No, no I haven't!
- You're not are you? - But I am!
Straw, Mac and Nessie got three minuses in a day
If I work in Law I should like a reasonable amount of success
I shouldn't like to be on the bread-line which is all to common
I'd like to be a Solicitor
and, also fairly successful
I only know what I don't want and that's
a nuclear family in a semi-detached in Brentford
Do you three see yourselves...
staying in England, living in England, making your careers in England?
Yes
Well the trouble is Law is not really very exportable
From my point of view anyway
I quite like England
'cause I can't say I really approve very much of the sort people who emigrate
I mean it's too easy for people who...
this is where I would agree with you about people who have had opportunities
I do think they've got a corresponding duty to sort of put back....
you know, people who have had things going well for them
really ought to stay and help the country out when things aren't going very well
I don't believe in all this pulling one's money out
but that's a moral point of view, I do believe people have the right to live where they like
and also to move their assets around
but on a moral level I do feel very strongly that people shouldn't quit
- Is that why you don't want to leave? - Yes
and also I can't imagine anywhere so nice as England
Probably stay in England for the reasons that John put forward, I think one has a moral duty
It sounds terrible but, you know...if...
It's up to one certainly to make an attempt
to put something back in to whatever it is that you're doing in England
Having used the various facilities that are put out for you by the state
I think the more you've had out of the country
the more privileges you're born with
the greater your duty is
We chose two boys from a children's home in Middlesex
Paul
Say you had a wife
say you had to eat what they cooked you
and say I don't like vegetables, well I don't
and say she said "you have to eat what you get"
So I don't like vegetables so say she gives me vegetables then that's it
Well as far as I know my mother and father got...
well they separated originally I think
they eventually got divorced
I went to the boarding school for one year then we emigrated to Australia
my father got remarried
and how do you get on with your step-mum?
pretty well but like I said before I'm just not close enough
I'm not really close to my father either
Paul left the children's home when he was eight
Our other boy stayed until he was thirteen
Symon
Was it difficult moving from the home back to live with your mother?
- You're still here after, eight years now? - Yeah yeah
Well I find it's comfortable
See I can get on well with my mother sometimes
well that's good because a lot of ...
young children can't get on with their parents at all at this time of the year, their life
but I get on pretty well with my mum now
we talk very well with each other
but it's..
sometimes not quite as mother and son
sort of more like friends
What sort of life does your mother have?
Well it seems hard, I mean she's always been...
nervous
not all the time, but...
she has periods of depression or deep depression or whatever you want to call it
that sort of makes me think "well what happened there?"
What effect has that had on you do you think?
Well it's made me very sort of protective towards her
I feel I've got to help her all the time
They say "Where's your father then?"
You know when your mums out at work "Where's your father?"
and I just tell them I ain't got one
What effect has that had on you?
Well I don't think it's had any effect on me, 'cause...
what you don't have you don't miss
Twenty years ago
when I was born
an illegitimate child, you know
that's something that's only whispered about
people feel strongly about it in those days
but nowadays it's..
it's not a serious matter
the serious point is whether you stay with someone or you leave them
We took Paul and Symon round the buildings which were once the children's home
I remember this path but I've never walked on it was out of bounds
the only place I saw this was from out the windows and that
- What was that there? - That? That was eh...
That was hospital juniors, that's where we used to be
- Really? - Yeah
I don't like the big boys
Hitting us and...
and the staff is up in the washroom
sends the nurse out, "well there's no talking"
"No I wasn't talking today"
Then Brown sent me out for nothing
Remember the tiles?
- No not really - Yeah I remember them when they were cleaner
- I remember the two offices - Yeah the doctors and the nurses
Some things gone
- The seats - Yeah the seats
The smell, the smells gone
- Remember Midgely - Yeah
He was a real bastard
I remember one night, I forget what I actually did
But he made me clean all the shoes in the house
there was about fifty pair of shoes and took about two hours or something
Well I feel like joining in when there's already a fight
Ah do you remember Froggy Page?
No
He was the tailor
- I remember him - Tailor?
Yeah he was here for thirty-seven years or something
bent over backwards or bent over forwards or something
- The golf course - Yeah
Used to think about running away over that when you'd get scared
That's where the headmaster's son used to shoot the squirrel's off the trees isn't it - yeah
Do you remember the boy that
in the senior part
where my brother was, he
he was sleeping one time and he went out the second story window
Oh the sleep walker, Weaver, Robert Weaver
- We all had to pray for him - Yeah
- Everybody said he had a steel plate in his head - Yeah
How have you got on with Symon? after you haven't seen him for fourteen years
Well I didn't recognise him at all
I think we got along really well, I don't know what he'd say to that but
I found him very likeable
He's just the sort of person who if I could I'd like to do something for them
Because I feel I've got, no offence to him, but I feel I've got more than him
It's just that it seems to me that
things have fallen into line now for me
Every thing's started to come good, I've started to enjoy life
and I've started to think "well I'm not a no hoper"
Because I think that's what I've always thought about myself
I know I didn't have any confidence in myself
despite what I said when I was fourteen
I've always lacked confidence
I still do to a certain extent but nothing
nothing like I did say when I was fourteen
The job I'm in, I mean, brick laying
I mean I enjoy it, it interests me
and I'm very content at work
in June last year I was made a junior partner
though that was through circumstances
but I look at it this way
I'm not great with my life
but if I wasn't good enough and my boss didn't think I was good enough
he would've never made me a junior partner
as for the job
you know, you build a house
then you turn around and look at it and say "well I did that"
it's better than having a whole row of figures
it's substance you know, there's something there
Symon works in the freezer room of a meat company near his home in Middlesex
My job's running away from me
You do jobs which I suppose are fairly routine and dull
- Yeah - What keeps you going during them?
Oh it's definitely the people there
You work up a kind of team spirit there, y'know what I mean
You can .....
think about all the work you've got to do in the morning
and you just don't want to go
but once you get there just sort of generally....
I was going to say messing around there, I won't say that
the managers might see it
sort of joking about
they make you feel you want to get the work done
Go out and get some
just ask for them
and we always say
when we come out of the chiller we don't want to go back in
but when we get back in we get on with it
So are you a good time keeper?
Ah it depends
Usually I try to get to work early
but I have periods of where I just say "sod it"
if I get there I get there
I think the hardest thing is to get up in the morning
for me it takes a great deal out of me now
Do you never feel you should be doing better jobs than these?
Aren't you worth more than this?
No I haven't really
I suppose I just like hard work, I don't know
But eh...
It's never really sort of worried me
I suppose it should but it just hasn't
and how do you see the future as far as work goes?
Well I know I can't stay at Walls forever, I mean it's just not me
I couldn't stay there for that long, my mind would go dead
But eh...
I think if I really wanted to I could learn a trade, even now
Y'know if I really felt that I ought to get out and do something different
I could learn a trade if I wanted to
and what would you like to be doing say in seven years?
Well I couldn't really say I haven't thought one year ahead yet
I think I'm still sort of young in my head
I don't really sort of take things seriously
All I want out of life is to be happy
and when I say happy I want to be happily married as well
because I can't say I don't want to get married
because I think I do
but I want to be happily married y'know
therefore I want to make sure I think
How would you define happiness? What is it?
Basically to me it's the will to live
I mean, me I literally love life, I love people
I mean I think before I didn't
I mean, when I was fourteen I said
I've forgotten what the question was but I said
something about I want to be alone
and when I said that I know even now I meant that
if someone had dropped me out in the Sahara Desert
I probably would've been happy more or less if you get the point
Whereas I'm not like that now, I'd sooner be around people
I don't like doing things by myself
and happiness to me is a love for life and a love for people
I think I admire people with great determination
y'know like people who just come up from nothing
they build up their life from absolutely nothing
I could say Muhammad Ali
because he absolutely came from nothing
I mean you can't agree with everything he says but his word goes down now
he's the biggest thing in sport he's one of the biggest things in life
I mean people like him
What when you look at yourself do you think your weaknesses and strengths are?
I think my main weakness is I don't really take a grip of life
I don't really look...
I always look deeply into it but it just seems to be ...
just a sort of hobby with me, I look at everything and I criticise it
and I work everything out but after that I just sort of leave it
I find it hard to express emotion most of the time
although I'm getting on top of that
more happy now?
just the simple things to say to Susan, y'know "I love you" or something like that
I mean I can tell you about it but
I really haven't been able to say it freely to Susan
I suppose that's a weakness
Do you have a dream?
A dream? not....
Not so much a dream but I know if I ever wanted to get on I could do it
I mean I always feel that I've got something inside me that would make me move
But eh...
I think what it is really is I'm just waiting for an excuse to use it
Y'know at the moment I feel ok just getting on with my life
just sort of keeping up
but I know if I really wanted to I could get on
It'll only take a little spark with me to do it
Is it important to fight? Yes
Would everybody please sit round now and get on with their work
I don't want to see any backs to me
Shouldn't be anybody turning round, Tony do you hear aswell?
Get on with your work in front
Tony!
Don't turn round again
I want to be a jockey when I grow up yeah I want to be a jockey when I grow up
Tony left his Eastend secondary modern school at fifteen
and became an apprentice at Tommy Gosling's racing stables in Epsom
This is a photo finish of when I rode at Newberry
I'm the one with the white cap
I was beaten a length and a half for third and had a photo finish
so I took it out the box and kept it as a souvenir
Have you any other pictures of you as a jockey?
Yeah I've got a lot of them
Show me that one
That one when I was at Windsor
that was my last ride on the old horse, Sharrod Heath that was
he was a lovely old horse, I'll never forget him
How many rides did you have?
Only three
Why was that?
Well obviously if I was good enough I would've had more
that was the first day I ever put myself in jockey silks
that was my first ride ever
How did it feel like?
It feel like there's no words that can explain how it felt
that one was when I was going to the parade ring
They're not very good
my brother, I mean he's not no good at taking photos
He's no Lord Snowdon
But describe the feeling, go on
Describe, well....I mean I..
Frankie Durr right, he was told to look after me
so I went in there I said "I don't know my first ride"
and he said "alright don't worry, your boss has told me to look after you"
and so
I was changing into my silks
and I felt good y'know, I could see all the faces that I think
and when I look at the newspaper I think, Jeff Lewis, Frankie Durr and...
I thought to myself all of a sudden I'm in the same room getting changed
Then I walked in the parade room
the parade ring and eh...
and all my family's there and they're all going "Go on Tone!"
and the boss came over and he said
you've got to do this to the horse, you hold him back, you go half pace
keep your hands down, keep him in the rails
and I'm going "yeah yeah" like, nod
and all of a sudden when he said "Jockeys please mount"
and the bell went "Ding ding"
and my heart just sunk because I thought to myself
Here I was yesterday a sort of nobody
and here I am today, I'm king like
I felt king for one day, well for ten minutes
Do you regret not making it?
Well I would've given my right arm at the time to become a jockey
But now...
well I wasn't good enough, it's as easy as that
What will you do if you don't make it as a jockey?
I don't know
If I knew I couldn't be one I'd get out of the game
wouldn't bother
and what do you think you would do then?
Learn taxi's
Taxi driver
I will be a cab driver right, how can I fail?
I got one brother taxi driver pulling me
and the other brother pushing me so I got to make it
I will be a cab driver and I know I will
and I'm going to prove every person who thinks I can't be a cab driver wrong
and I'm going to get that badge and put it right in their face
just to tell them how wrong they can be and how under estimated I am
Doing the taxi knowledge means Tony going out on his motorbike every day
and learning the hundreds of routes round the streets of London
Well I can just get up, go on my bike, do two runs, come home
call them over then boom, I've done my days work then I go out here and earn my money
Hackney Wick it's my sort of living
I can say until the time I am a cab driver
But mean my freedom's here and that is the main thing what I want
Tony spends his spare time at Hackney Wick Greyhound Stadium placing bets for the punters
Fifty-five to twenty Boris
Five to one Cooladine
Four and a half fifty's, four and a half fifty's
Poor-Sunshine fourteen to one
Take it, take it!
If your father gambles you always looked upon how he gambles
I tried my luck and see what he does
and I took it from there, it's sort of in you
some people drink and they can't get out of drinking, some people smoke and can't stop smoking
well I think I'm firmly on the ground as a gambler
I know you can't win gambling, putting money on the dogs and horses, I know that
But when you put other peoples money on you can't lose
What do they call you here?
I reckon a pest, or something like that
'cause I'm always running and doing everything that I shouldn't be doing
I thought I was going to get barred one day 'cause I used to...
Well I don't mean to make a nuisance of myself
I mean if the other patrons of the place
they don't want to see a little boy nipping between their feet
running, putting a bet on for a person
You understand? they think "cor what's he doing is he mad?"
I mean I walk up there I order the teas
There could be eight people in front of me, I just go...
Can I have a tea please, tea please, five times
tea please tea please
and they've got to serve me before them to get rid of me, do you understand?
So that's how you've got to do it
Just keep on and on and on and they go
"oh driving me mad, here you are, get rid of him" it's as easy as that
That's the way to get on in life, just be a noise, annoyed
annoyance all the time to a person and they go "oh he's driving me mad, get him away from me
and more or less they give you the first option
sort of find that
You're very short, has that had much trouble?
Well a bird said to me the other day
She said "ain't you small"
So I said "but you're ugly at least I can grow"
What can they say to that? they can't say nothing can they?
to a thing like that, or...
or example...
She said to me "Ain't you small" so I looked at her tits and she was only about a thirty
I said "But you're not too big either so we're both in the same way"
- Have you got a girlfriend? - No
Would you like to have a girlfriend?
No
Do you understand "The Four F's?"
Find the, feed them, forget them
for the other F I'll let you use your own discrimination
I mean...
this one
I tried to do the three F's
but I couldn't forget her
I'd done the three F's but I couldn't forget her
It sounds silly but that's the only way I can put it
Tell me about the family, are you fairly closely knit?
Well I love them all
There's not one I don't love more than the other, other than my mum obviously
but your mum is the root of the tree, you love your mum best
So what do you like about living in the Eastend?
It's very sort of real, there's nothing false
only the police!
I'm firmly placed and there's no way I can see getting out, I wouldn't want to get out really
It's very hard to make it in the Eastend because the roots are firmly stuck in the ground
and you've got to have a big hard pull to get them out
So are there many villains in the Eastend?
There has been in the time I suppose
the originals were the Kray twins
We're in Vallance Rd now, as it goes they used to live here
in a house they used to call Fort Vallance
'cause it was that hard to get into I expect
Do you have much to do with villains?
I can't say I have much to do, I wouldn't say I'm a villain myself
I don't go thieving and don't do anybody any harm fighting wise
I'm trying to say that
Wherever you go there's villains and whether you mix with them or not it's up to you
Does it worry you the possibility of becoming one of them?
How can I become a villain?
If it's not in there, it's not born in there you won't become one
Don't you think you're going to regret not having an education?
Where does that come into it? it doesn't come into it in my mind?
Education is just a thing to say "my son is higher than him"
or "my son had a better background than him"
I mean
I'm as good or even better than most of them people
especially on this program
I mean
On one of the trailers you'll think
oh the Eastend boy and he ain't got a no good education
but all of a sudden the Eastend boy's got a car and a motorbike and he goes to Spain every year
and whatever
and have I worked for it?
No I'm here putting bets on
and you think "how does he do it?"
and there's a boy, who's he? and whatever
he's studying to be a professor, he's making up things
They're mainly education, there's no education in this world
Just one big rat race and you've got to
kill your man next to you to get in front of him
What do you think about trade unions and things like that?
I don't under know I don't
I don't know enough to know about them if you understand me
I mean
I'm not a politician so let them worry about what's coming for the next day
all I understand is
dogs, prices, girls, knowledge, roads, streets, squares and mum and dad and love
that's all I understand that's all I want to understand
Here you are
Come on three chase it
Come on boy
Go on three inside
Come on three???
He's checking everywhere....
Well going to Africa
and try and teach people who are not civilised
to be more or less good
No I don't want to be a missionary because I just can't talk about it to people
Y'know, I am interested in it myself but I wouldn't be very good at it at all
and I wouldn't enjoy it
Why wouldn't you be good at it
Well I'm just not very good at...
at standing up in front of people and making a speech or anything like that
I'd like to keep it private, y'know
Is it possible you might ever think of going to the church?
It is possible, I've never said no definitely
But I wouldn't be doing it after I go to university
I mean it's just possible in ten years time I suppose
What would draw you to the church?
I don't know, it wouldn't be dissatisfaction with whatever I'm doing at the moment
In a way
If whatever I was doing I was doing very successfully
then that would be a better reason for going into the church really
or at least if I did go into the church it would meant I was giving something up
But
I think the wrong reasons are if you are dissatisfied with what you're doing
in the general sense of doing a job badly or
a failure in some sort of way
Bruce is in his final year at University College Oxford, reading mathematics
and by Eisenstien you can show that this is irreducible
then you do a transformation on this ???? x = to T+2
which you find is T cubed plus 17 squared plus 14 T plus 7
and
you observe that seven which is a prime
divides the co-efficient of T squared
T and the constant, not T cubed
and seven squared doesn't divide the constant term
so by Eisenstien
this is irreducible
so therefore two cross, two by seven is of degree three
and that length isn't constructable
from the quarry of our original theorem
so therefore the septagon's not constructable
Well that's a nice way of doing it, particularly using Eisenstien down here
his test is very popular, he was an interesting mathematician
What sort of job are you going to try for?
Well there was one job, I'd like to make maps really
and it's nice sort of outdoor life
you go to...I mean you travel around
and eh...
but there are very few jobs like that going
I'm sort of qualified, a general maths or science degree would do
or geography degree
But eh...
I think I've probably missed it this time round
and eh....but that's only....
perhaps I won't like making maps, it's something that I think I would do
Millbrook probably had a great influence on me in a way
I mean I was absolutely shocked rigid when I went to my prep school
and found people who thought of doing things wrong
I never really upset anyone or questioned authority
or misbehaved in any of my two later schools
which may seem an ideal thing but it's probably healthy to question why you have to do certain things
which I never did
Bruce was a border at this pre-preparatory school from the age of five
Squad left foot in one place
squad breathe in
Well it is mainly this lack of responsibility
for doing jobs given to me
people will say "why haven't you done this? Look you've upset us"
I was secretary of bridge society, chess society, cricket society
Scottish dancing society
and I didn't do anything for any of them, they were all very angry
and I spent last summer term in total seclusion
I saw maybe half a dozen people all term
in my room, darting across courts
people would say "I saw Balden today" and they'd say "No? really?"
it was awful really
My hearts desire is to see my daddy who is six thousand miles away
Y'know I've been getting on well with my step-father
and I like seeing my father occasionally
and he does come over from Rhodesia
What effect has the fact that you've seen very little of your father had on you?
Nothing really, I only ...something I regret that...
I didn't really get to know him better at all
We've written and we're both very bad writers, I'm probably worse than him
and eh...
that's something I regret is not having a just a regular correspondence
because I think he's an interesting man actually
and eh...
he probably regrets it as well
What do you think about your own upbringing?
what have been the strongest influences on that?
Probably to not let down my mother really
because she's worked awfully hard to get me through school
and
I haven't let her down yet
then..
as far as...eh ...not having...
my mothers divorce
I don't think that really has the effect that people imagine it to have
I mean I always have got on well with my stepfather
and with my half-sister, so in that sense I've had a family life
I'd help people if I had a chance
Y'know by say giving a little bit of money to charity or sponsoring things
or things like that
Well I took nine months off
between school and university
and there I taught at a school and worked in the Banbury sewage works
two months
What sort of school was it?
Well I never like admitting this but it was a handicapped school
I mean
it seems to present me as wanting to do these things
I suppose in a way I do, and
I do get some satisfaction from doing it, but....
I could so easily have done something else
it was just almost an accident that I ended up at the spastic school
and eh...
I'm glad I did it because I enjoyed it
not for its....
I suppose slightly charitable nature of the work, but
the people I met, work, it was quite good
Why are you frightened of presenting this image of yourself
It's...
It's possibly because I
I don't know, I never want to feel to proud really
I mean it's dangerous for a start and it's so easy
and
it doesn't work in a way because I can try and pretend to be humble
that's being proud in just the same sort of way
I find it a very difficult thing to avoid, pride
Tell me, are you interested in politics at all?
Not as much as I was
I am about the only socialist in my village
and I go into the pub
and sort of expect to stand up and defend all socialist policies
sort of, this is the village socialist
no, village idiot, sorry
you agree with all this immigration so I stand up and defend it
and it's awfully hard work though I think I'm going to give that up
So where do you stand politically now then?
I'm still socialist but not as energetically as I was I suppose
What do you think about the way England's being run at the moment?
Well...
I'm glad the socialist's are in power because
This illusive thing called freedom is sort of rearing its head
and the conservatives are pushing it forward
and I thought this argument was smashed
at the early years of this century but it seems to be coming back
and it really is exceptionally dangerous because
the more you try and defend freedom
you allow everybody to do exactly what they like within limits
then the less you have
I mean there's no freedom in living in a slum
It's alright you can say the chap can do whatever he wants
he can get a better job or anything but that's just not the case
the more you defend freedom the less you have it
Well my girlfriend is in Africa
and I don't think I'll have another chance of seeing her again
Have you got any girlfriends?
No, not yet
I'm sure it will come, but not yet
What is your attitude to sex?
Well it's not quite, normal attitude to anti-sex
I mean I as it were burnt my fingers a little
I don't feel as though I'm missing anything now
I don't feel a need for it
and I'm quite happy at not feeling a need for it really
I mean I do think a lot of people think too much about it
What happened when you burnt your fingers?
I'd rather not talk about it really
well no in fact I don't really mean that
I don't mean I don't want to talk about it
it's just I'd need quite a long time to think about it really
Why?
Well in the end I decided the eh...
the effect, the pleasure, or...
just didn't seem worth it really
didn't seem worth...
See I think there's two different sorts
there's casual sex then there's sex in love and marriage
and
casual sex is not...
I don't think it's quite as widespread as people believed
because
if both the people treat it as casual sex then I think it's alright
but
if you're sort of looking for
I don't know this may seem awfully silly but
if you're looking for casual sex but don't want to treat it as such
then it doesn't seem to be worth the lies, I don't know the...
the sort of effort
- Is this what happened to you? - I suppose in a way yes
Have you been in love?
No, no
and eh...
I think I'll probably have to wait for that really
Play international wrestling
Yeah that's only at summertime though
Yeah summer we can go on the grass
Neil went to a comprehensive school in Liverpool
got four A-levels then walked out of Aberdeen university after one term
and is now doing casual labour in London
I came to London I think because I wanted to start a new life really
I'd left the university in Aberdeen
in the end of nineteen seventy-five
and I became conscious of the fact that I was drifting around
which I suppose I'm still doing here but at least I took the decision to move myself
and I think possibly there's more challenge in London than there ever could be in Aberdeen
Peter, Neil's school friend from Liverpool
is now in his last year at London university, reading history
It was obviously a big step
it was exciting more than anything, I mean that sounds corny but it was
Do you remember the day you left Liverpool?
Yeah very well
It was pouring down with rain, I remember that
just had the traditional send of from the train station, my mum and dad were there
a couple of mates turned up at the last minute, from the school to see me
- Catch a girl and kiss a girl - Yeah
and what happens then?
- Well the girls are all screaming - Yeah
and then we catch them we kiss them
We're interested in contrast with you and Neil
were you aware of differences in home background at the time?
Oh sure yeah, I mean both Neil's parents are teachers as you know
that's got to be a hell of a difference for a start
I mean, I'm not knocking them for a minute, they're very nice people
but eh...
there's obviously going to be some sort of academic type atmosphere in the house
which I did notice one or two times
but I think Neil
whether by design or just by the situation he was in
was obviously going to be under more pressure
I came to London and I contacted an agency for squatters
and they were able to give me the address of somebody
who was able to help people who were looking for accommodation in the London area
and by a process of chasing people around
I eventually managed to find this place here
I wouldn't squat in a place which I knew to be owned by somebody else
I wouldn't, certainly because I knew if I had a place of my own
and found somebody squatting in it I'd be disgusted
But this place was empty
and I was simply offered a place to live here and was very grateful for it
and I think in questions of squatting
a bit of humanity is more important that vain rules about who can live where
In contrast, Peter lives in a flat in North London
sharing with three other students
there have been three guys living here originally
and one of them left
to get engaged, virtually married
and the flat was meant for four in the first place
so Dave and Trev asked Ian and I if we'd like to move in
because we did 'cause we'd been searching for a flat for some months
so we jumped at the opportunity really
I've got my own room, I can cook whenever I like
I haven't got a landlady to tell me what time to come in
I've got my own front door key
and to tell the truth it's a lot better than a lot of the accommodation I've had
over the last eighteen months or so
it could be a bit warmer, it's a bit chilly
but eh...
it's perfectly satisfactory for the time being
These are obvious restrictions, y'know
not able to cook for yourself
you've got to think for yourself a lot more
but it's eh...
certainly not as exhausting or wearing as I thought it would be
I mean, y'know...
coming up myself is a challenge of some sort
we're going to have to split two sausages into three now
Well once Caroline Tetford said she loved me
and I'm going to marry her when I grow up
I hate her, she's always getting bad tempered and cross with me
- Does she? - Yeah
She says "Neil Hughes, move your desk forward"
and when I put it back she says "Neil Hughes put your chair forward"
and she just gets into a girly mood with me like that
Tell me about the period in your life when you went to university and what happened
It was a very short period
I was only at university...
well I was only taking university seriously for a matter of two or three months
maybe I went to the wrong university or maybe university life didn't suit me
either way
I felt a very great need to get out of the system
Well this is my final year so I'm not in college that much
I don't have to be
so what I'm expected to do is to be ...
laying out revision timetables at home and..
working like a slave
which I'm not at the moment, but I will be soon
I did make an application to Oxford
but I didn't get in
and eh
well I think that's in the past now and that's...
I don't know whether I would've been any happier at Oxford
it always had been a dream to get into Oxford
I think being as people had encouraged me
because I knew famous people having been to Oxford
I'd read memoirs written by famous people
things such as Brideshead's Revisited which was a great favourite
but these I suppose are
well they were dreams which I had while I was at school and
I have to just get over the fact that I didn't get into Oxford
probably because I didn't approach the thing in the right way
Are you bitter about it?
I was very bitter at the time
maybe I still am but I try to get over it
I think once I can get myself going I can work solid, yeah
but it's the motive
which is very hard to acquire when you're in the flat most of the time
it's hard to sort of look ahead to next June and think of those exams
but I dare say I'll do it, get the average type degree and...
I'm not worried
Is it a problem to you motivating yourself generally?
Yeah it can be
I can look back on the day and think "how I wasted that"
although I must've enjoyed it at the time
What sort of influence did your parents have on you?
Well they made me believe in god from the start
which I certainly wouldn't
or I don't know even now whether I believe in god or not
I've thought an awful lot about it actually and
I still don't know
but still this was the absolutely certain one
if one was to survive in the world one had to believe in god
this was something which was taught to me
always think of other people first before yourself
to a ridiculous neurotic degree
which I think affected me
What do you mean by that?
Well this I suppose is basic christianity
it's sort of...
if somebody slaps you on one cheek let them do it on the other
almost literally taken
which gave me a few shocks when I tried to put it into practise
- In what way? - I don't think to be honest
to go back to that question I don't think
I was really taught any sort of policy of living at all by my parents
this was probably their biggest mistake
that I was just left to fend for myself
in a world which they seemed completely oblivious of
and I found even when I tried to discuss problems which were facing me in school
my parents didn't seem to be aware of the nature of the problem
Were they ambitious for you?
Yeah but along set lines which they had planned
I think they have often said to me that they
they had seen me even from when I was very young in a certain type of career
and possibly they'd never even thought that anything else was vaguely possible
they probably imagined I would be
maybe a university lecturer or
a bank manager or something like this
some kind of indoor work
which involved writing and reading and this sort of thing
because they didn't take account of the other side of my personality
but
I wonder how many parents really think of their children as individual human beings
What are your feelings about them now? Your parents
I'm glad they're there because if I ever become homeless again
I will be able to go back and live with them
they wouldn't object to this
I'm capable of getting on with my parents perfectly well
If they are willing to let me live as another adult in their house
and appreciate that I'm living my own way of life
and that I am living there because I can't think of anything else to do with myself
What do they think of what you're doing now?
They accept it, I think now they do accept that I'm the person I am
they see this as simply my attempting to add more experience to my life
which satisfies me
Are they worried about you?
Probably yes
but no more worried now than they were when I first left for university
that was probably the time at which they were most worried
and we have in fact managed to discuss a lot of personal things
which I felt at one time I'd never be able to discuss
and therefore, as I say
it is possible for me to live for a few weeks even a month or so at home
without there being to much friction
So are you under pressure to get a job
to think of what you're going to do when you leave in June
Yeah I suspect I am from my parents, they keep dropping hints
which is only fair I can understand their feelings
obviously I've got to get a job
I don't want to laze around on the dole for months and months
you'd go mad
I just can't see what I'll be doing in nine, ten months time though
Does that depress you or does that excite you?
No it certainly doesn't depress me
perhaps it does excite me in a way yes
something will turn up, something of that nature y'know
but obviously you've got to think realistically about doing something
I mean I might be living in cloud cuckoo land y'know
my mum and dad might say "no son"
"you don't get a job you like"
I'd like to think I could
Well, we pretend we've got swords
we make the noises of the swords fighting
and when somebody stabs us we go "Arrrrrgghhh!"
What goes through your mind when you saw those two films
when you were at seven, bright and perky?
I find it hard to believe that I was ever like that but there's the evidence
I wonder why I was like that
I wonder what it was inside me that made me like that
and I can see even at fourteen and I was beginning to get more subdued
and I was putting a lot more thought into what I was saying
too a ridiculous degree
and probably when I was seven I just..... I don't know
I lived in a wonderful world where everything was sensation dumb
I could be happy like this I could be miserable the next minute
and I didn't have to plan for the future
I didn't have to worry about having friends and all this money
because everything was so mapped out for me
I don't know what sort of stumbling blocks should be put in a child's way
to get him used to living in the outside world
because I think maybe this is something that was wrong in my upbringing
I didn't have enough obstacles to get over, to toughen myself up against
I was unprepared for things as they were
but looking back now I couldn't think of what might have been done
and I certainly wouldn't start writing educational theory about this
because I know how personal a thing it is
and it probably wouldn't work in anybody else's case
Would you like to be seven again?
No because I'd know that I had to be twenty-one again
I moved up to a comprehensive school
I found it much bigger of course
I found it hard to settle into at first
but now I've been here a few years I know my way around
I think it's a very good idea to have competition
otherwise you might start to relax and not try hard enough
Yes at that age I was very conscious of having to struggle
because I suppose of what parents and teachers were saying
they were saying
they said "you've got a brain you must put all your effort into school work"
well what else could they have said?
I would've probably been just as angry, looking back
if they'd never encouraged my intellectual efforts at all
When I get married I don't want to have any children
because
they are always doing naughty things
and making the whole house untidy
Do you have any great ambition, any dream?
I suppose I...
yes well...
I would like to be someone in a position of importance and I've always thought this
but I don't think I'm the right sort of person to carry the responsibility for whatever it is
I've always thought well I'd love to be
possibly even love to be in politics
something like this
but eh...
I suppose that I'd probably find just as tedious as all the other jobs I've done so...
What do you want out of life?
The satisfaction of knowing
that I've left some sort of imprint
rather than just lived out my life
I don't know....
it's going to sound like an epitaph I've left in memory of some people y'know
not that this guy worked, made a fair bit of money, good house, died
I'd like to have done something but...
then again it must be a drop in the ocean I suppose
I mean who is going to remember me in a hundred years time?
So is it that important, how you live out your life?
but I would like to think I'm going to do something with it
something positive
Do you and Peter have the same values?
I think we both value happiness and stability
I think most people do
But you've kicked against the stability that's..
I don't think I ever had any stability, to be quite honest
I can't think of any time in my life when I ever did
I don't think I've been kicking against anything
I think I've been kicking in mid-air the whole of my life
It's only one more
What do they think about each other?
and how would they act together?
to find out we invited them all to one big party and joined in
#If I say that I love you#
#and you know it's true#
#if you said that you'd leave me#
#what would I do?#
#I'll let you back if you let me#
#I'll change your mind......#
Yes but they were a bit too tough for my liking
so they hit me right in the back and I've still got a pain there
The posh ones, "Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes!"
they're nuts
you just have to touch them
Well some of them were rather dirty
- What do you think about them? - I played with them quite naturally
I think they were rather nice really
What do you think about rich people?
Well... not much
Tell me about them
Well they think they can do everything without you doing it as well
and they think just because they're rich they have to have people to do all their work
What would you do if you had lots of money, about two pounds?
Me? I would help the poor
What for?
The poor, if you don't help them they die soon wouldn't they
and every time we have a harvest festival we send food to them
and once these two.....no
Susan and Janet Simpson went round giving it out with Mr Floyd
- I don't think much of the accents - Neither do I
Neither do I
it won't prevent me liking them
Don't you ever think to yourself -
Jump out of that suit, come to the Eastend
throw the books in the corner and do what you have to do
- I'd certainly throw the books in the corner - Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
Yeah
- What are you going to do in life? - I've really no idea
The idea of just living somewhere and working for a living is just horrifying really
I mean, being a student is very easy
I just postponed the decision by going to university
I wouldn't say being a student's easy, that's why I left school
- It was too hard - Really
Who is to say what a seven year old child is?
I don't think there's anyway you can do it so a seven year old child could seem to be one thing
and you could always argue that the end product was produced by what he actually was
rather than what he seemed to be
- you'd normally use the total.... - Not a bookmaker but a....
- I'm always frightened they'd clear off - What?
I'm always frightened they'd clear off if they had a bad afternoon
No they're not like that, they can always get hold of money
What fears do you have for the future?
Well certainly the idea of, as I was saying before
getting into a job and simply getting stuck in it and that's it
without knowing why you're doing it
but I would think now that this is the time where I would think about something like that
and make sure it doesn't happen
I really don't see how one's life can be a failure
in that....
if I became a journalist and got sacked at thirty
probably because I had grown out of it or I had changed so I was no longer suitable
therefore I'd find something else which I enjoyed
and which my talents were suited to
No I have never suffered at all
never been driven to despair or tears or....
I don't know, have any of the others?
My strength is being able to keep going really
and my weakness is not being able to take any positive course of action
I suppose I tend to behave in the fashion of the people that I'm with
in some circumstances I think that can be quite a weakness sometimes
sometimes wish I didn't
occasionally look at myself and think "christ you're a bloody fool, what are you doing now?"
and that sometimes disturbs me
We had a teacher at school
that his favourite ploy was....
"All you girls want to do is walk out, get married, have babies
and push a pram down the road with a cigarette hanging out the side of your mouth"
god if there was ever a sentence I'd resent it would be that one - yeah
There's only one ambition really I want a baby son
if I see my baby son that'll be my ambition fulfilled
no one knows that, only you now!
Well to me it is a dream to be totally happy
I mean, I don't think you can expect that but...
What happens if you don't make that? If you don't ever find it? How will you cope?
I don't know, it would be hard to say
the human minds very strong and it can be very weak
and so you could crack up from it and you could just
live your life out from day to day and you could get over it I think
well not get over it but you'd sort of cope with it I think
but what I'd do I just don't know
I mean I want to be happy and my dreams are all for happiness
but basically that's what I want out of life
I always leave something inside me, I always leave a bit behind
I always hold back a bit with everything I do
just to sort of....something to fall back on
I've always got something else to look on if anything goes wrong anywhere
What is that something you hold back?
I think it's a part of my heart
What do you want most out of life?
To be happy and get on with life
you don't want to just sit back and let it always pass
you could be run over by a bus tomorrow
so you've got to make the most of it while you've got it
Simply to be able to wake up in the morning and feel that
this day was going to be worthwhile
which is what I don't feel at the moment
At the end of their very special day in London
after their trip to the zoo and the party
we took our children to an adventure playground
where they could do just what they liked
those from a children's home set about building a house
The houses in Australia, the average sort of living there will do me fine
I mean it's terrific
I often say I'm saving to settle down with Yvonne
and then I think to myself "nah I might buy a car instead"
There's Nicholas
You have to run fast to stay where you are
to go forward you have to run very fast indeed, or whatever the quote is
so I'll probably feel I'm actually achieving nothing
and Tony
I don't want to change because if I change
it proves the other Tony Walker was all fake
Andrew
After I've qualified as a Solicitor I'll have to rethink
I don't know at all what will happen after that
and Bruce
It all springs from.....
loving god and christ I suppose
you try and do that as best as possible and that leads your actions in life
John
I'd quite like to go into politics but that's easier said than done
Susie
When you're a child you always think how nice it would be to be grown up
and independent and things
but there are times when I wish I was three again
Jackie and her friends
give me a child until he is seven
and I will give you the man
this has been a glimpse of Britain's future